= Сообщение: 4077 из 12549 ====================================== ENET.SYSOP = От : David Rance 2:203/2 14 Jul 16 15:56:51 Кому : Michiel van der Vlist 14 Jul 16 15:56:51 Тема : Brexit FGHI : area://ENET.SYSOP?msgid=2:203/2+57879a22 На : area://ENET.SYSOP?msgid=2:280/5555.1+57877a24 = Кодировка сообщения определена как: CP866 ================================== ============================================================================== On Thu, 14 Jul 2016 13:01:08 Michiel van der Vlist -> David Rance wrote:
MvdV> On Thursday July 14 2016 12:46, you wrote to me:
DR>> No, I know it's not the EU's fault. I was just saying that we have had DR>> a big problem with immigration for a long time. We've even put a cap DR>> on colonials entering the country (which was very unpopular). But DR>> Brexit will not solve the problem even though the sounds bytes of the DR>> campaign suggest that it might. There are lots of non-EU people trying DR>> to get in to the UK but the thought that we could once more control DR>> our borders by leaving the EU prompted the large Brexit vote.
MvdV> Maybe you cab control your borders after Brexit. But price will be high MvdV> because you can not just stop the unwanted influx of immigrants and let MvdV> the rest pass unhinderded. Closing the borders for immigrants will also MvdV> be the return of the trade barriers. Plus that it will be a two way MvdV> barrier, not a diode. If EU citizens can not freely enter the UK and MvdV> live and work there, then UK citizens won't be free to live and work in MvdV> the EU either.
Yes, 48% of us know that, but, when the Remain campaign brought this up, the Leave campaign said that we were spreading alarm and despondency. And that is how the Leave campaign won. They said that they were being positive by advocating change and the Remain campaign was being negative by opposing them. And for those citizens of the UK that were incapable of thinking for themselves believed it!
MvdV> And ofcourse it will not stop the illegal immigrants trying to cross MvdV> the channel as stowaways.
Of course not!
DR>> But the present would-be influx of immigrants is coming to the UK, not DR>> The Netherlands.
MvdV> I think you are misinformed. They are not hust coming to the UK. They MvdV> are coming to all the "good" countries. Germany, Sweden, The MvdV> Netherlands. Difference is that the UK is an island. You can not just MvdV> walk from Calais to Dover.
Well, one can. It has been known for them to walk through the tunnel (the service tunnel that goes between the running tunnels).
We haven't exactly been misinformed. We just haven't been informed.
MvdV>>> If the people of the UK think Brexit will stop the influx, it MvdV>>> is a reason to proceed as quickly as possible....
DR>> I don't think it was rational thought, because we know that it won't. DR>> I think I've said this before, British elections (no doubt like yours) DR>> very often are protest votes at whatever situation we find ourselves DR>> in. 52% of the British Public thought that this was the thing to do in DR>> voting for Brexit.
MvdV> I understand how it works, we had the same thing with the Ukraine MvdV> referendum. Referendums reduce a comples issue to a yes/no question. It MvdV> is not a good way to make decisions.
No, it isn't. And I don't think that David Cameron would have chosen to do it but for the fact that members of his party were haemorrhaging to UKIP. He had to do *something* but could you have thought of anything better? I couldn't. And, realising afterwards what a daft thing that was to do, he did the honourable thing and resigned.
DR>> Like you, we are all puzzled by the appointment of Boris as Foreign DR>> Secretary. I did tell you that we hadn't seen the last of him, and DR>> this new appointment for him will place him well to succeed Theresa DR>> May when the time comes.
MvdV> It may be the old trick of bringing the opponont in, instead of keeping MvdV> him out. From within, he can be controlled.
Yes, indeed. I had thought that, too. But what I wrote a day or two ago, that Michael Gove would be out of the government because of his treachery to his friends, has indeed come to pass. Theresa May obviously thinks he isn't as great a threat as Boris. Well, he certainly doesn't have the same support and he's hardly a charismatic character. (Perhaps that's as a result of having been a Fidonet sysop!) :-)
DR>> Of course, our media (and, no doubt, yours) are now digging out all DR>> the stupid things he's said over the last ten years or more that will DR>> antagonise other nations. But that was his image; he played the DR>> buffoon.
MvdV> I haven't seen any of that yet. The media here always lag a bit behind MvdV> in that. No doubt the weekend papers will have an extensive analyses.
One I can think of is that he said that Hillary Clinton "has got dyed blonde hair and pouty lips, and a steely blue stare, like a sadistic nurse in a mental hospital." But he did say that nine years ago! One hopes he's grown up a bit since then and stops indulging in this undergraduate humour.
David
-- David Rance writing from Caversham, Reading, UK
