= Сообщение: 4086 из 12549 ====================================== ENET.SYSOP = От : Gerrit Kuehn 2:240/12 14 Jul 16 18:38:46 Кому : David Rance 14 Jul 16 18:38:46 Тема : Brexit FGHI : area://ENET.SYSOP?msgid=2:240/12+574b401e На : area://ENET.SYSOP?msgid=2:203/2+5786bc42 = Кодировка сообщения определена как: LATIN-1 ================================ ============================================================================== Hello David!
14 Jul 16 00:10, David Rance wrote to Gerrit Kuehn:
GK>> Maybe my memory is faulty, but wasn't it especially the UK being GK>> eager to get in cheap working force from the new EU countries back in GK>> 2004? UK was deliberately opening their labour market to them as early GK>> as possible.
DR> That wasn't government policy. It was to do with taskmasters making DR> use of the "free borders" to employ gangs of cheap labourers from DR> Eastern Europe whom they paid very little and kept in appalling DR> conditions. Nothing at all to do with the UK "being eager" to take DR> them.
Germany took a much slower opening of the labour market, and this was all political decisions. I really doubt that British taskmasters could decide on that on their own without political backing and corresponding legislation.
DR> When I was a little boy some seventy years ago, I can remember DR> distinctly my first sight of a black African because there were so DR> few of them. Then from the 1960s onwards we have had a steady flow of DR> Indians, Pakistanis, Africans, West Indians, among others to the DR> point where my own home town of High Wycombe, in a generation, has an DR> immigrant population as great, if not greater, than the native DR> population.
Sounds a bit like a late fallout of the Commonwealth.
DR> This can be multiplied throughout the UK. As I said in a DR> previous message, we are probably the most densely populated country DR> in the EU.
Um... no. Higher densities are in
Malta Netherlands Belgium
Then comes Britain, closely followed by Germany.
DR> Little wonder that we want to get our immigration rate DR> down.
You will have all chances to do that, soon. I already have a couple of colleagues who are very unsure about their future now: they either work in Britain or come from there.
GK>> When thinking about UK and economic decline, poor people and such, I GK>> am more reminded of the 1970ies and 1980ies, especially Margaret GK>> Thatcher and her politics that willingly allowed for social GK>> inequality, crushed the unions and so on.
DR> She crushed the miners' unions because they were holding the country DR> to ransom with unreasonable strikes for higher and higher wages which DR> contributed to high inflation.
She (well, of course not she alone; politicians and other people in that time) deliberately fostered social inequality and practically de-industrialised the country. Focused everything on services, banking... Worked ok for Greater London for a couple of years, but turns out to be rather fragile these days.
GK>> I don't understand you at all here: UK is hardly taking any refugees GK>> compared to many other EU countries. The foreign workers you have GK>> were invited, you wanted them as soon as possible. So what is this GK>> "flow of immigrants" you want to reduce?
DR> Ever heard of "The Jungle" outside Calais? That was a camp where DR> illegal immigrants were staying so that they could try to make their DR> way across the Channel and into England. I've seen them myself trying DR> to get on to trucks bound for England.
Ever compared the numbers of people there to camps in southern Europe?
DR> David Cameron promised in his manifesto to get immigration, both DR> legal and illegal, down to below 100,000 per year. DR> He failed. And that's the reason that there was a majority in favour DR> of Brexit.
DR> But, like Michiel, I don't suppose you're going to believe me, so DR> I'll save my breath.
I believe every word you say. But I think the vote turned out as it did for two reasons: 1. Cameron promised things he could not keep, although he tried. 2. Brexiters promised even more things they very well knew they never could keep.
Regards, Gerrit
--- Msged/BSD 6.2.0 * Origin: And the pastiche we've invented (2:240/12)
