= Сообщение: 3956 из 12549 ====================================== ENET.SYSOP = От : Robert Bashe 2:2448/44 28 Jun 16 15:41:40 Кому : Michiel van der Vlist 28 Jun 16 15:41:40 Тема : Brexit FGHI : area://ENET.SYSOP?msgid=2:2448/44+57728497 На : area://ENET.SYSOP?msgid=2:280/5555+57726919 = Кодировка сообщения определена как: CP866 ================================== Ответ: area://ENET.SYSOP?msgid=2:280/5555+5772e42c ============================================================================== Michiel van der Vlist wrote to Robert Bashe on Tuesday June 28 2016 at 13:52:
RB>> What's now happening is a revenge campaign, particularly in Germany RB>> and EU allies, to "punish" the UK for it's "unacceptible" behavior.
MV> That is not what Juncker/Merkel/Hollande say. They do not want MV> revenge, but they do want a swift divorce.
No, they try to "demand" an Article 50 invocation "by Tuesday of this week". Which is not only impossible for lack of time, but totally unrealistic, a crude effort to put pressure on the UK. Revenge is still revenge by any other word.
The "powers that be" are miffed that the people don't love them and strike back any way they can.
RB>> I figure that will backfire and bolster the position of those who RB>> voted to leave.
MV> What I think is that it will backfire on the UK if it starts dragging MV> its feet.
And just _how_ will it backfire on the UK? The immediate turbulances will settle in time, and then we'll see how England fares without the EU millstone around it's neck. Incidentally, something I didn't know: in the news, it's being stated that England is the second largest ecopnomy in the EU, behind Germany. I wouldn't really worry about the UK at the moment.
RB>> As for the "demands" of the German-led EU on the UK that Article 50 RB>> be "immediately" invoked: the EU, and in particularly Germany, can RB>> stand on it's collective head. And the UK can collectively ignore RB>> that with impunity.
MV> If the UK refuses to cooperate in a clean and swift divorce, the 27 MV> will find ways to "entice" the UK to cooperate anyway. And if the MV> politicians won't move, the money will...
The "27"? Not the "3" (France, Germany, Netherlands) that are foaming at the mouth about the referendum? Don't forget that up to now, _any_ agreement, be it ever so minor, has hardly been achieved by all the EU members together. The migrant crisis is the most recent example of "European solidarity".
RB>> It is a great mistake to attack the UK at this point for the RB>> expressed will of it's people, rather than extend an olive branch and RB>> try to calm things down.
MV> The UK has overplayed its hand.
By allowing the people affected to decide for themselves? I think not. What happened in England would be replayed many times over if other governments were to allow their populations to decide. But as we all know, the "people" are stupid and only their "betters" know what's good for them - and particularly for themselves, in the form of high and largely unearned salaries and perks, plus a golden opportunity to get rid of unsuccessful political friends in well-paying jobs requiring a minimum of effort.
MV> Do not forget that they have been denmanding exceptionss and special MV> conditions for decades. They do not want the Euro,
So far, so good. Neither does Sweden or Denmark.
MV> they do not want Schengen,
Which is not a requirement for EU membership - and anyway has proved unworkable in a crisis.
MV> they do not want an EU army and Europol.
Where has there ever been talk of an "EU army"? As for Europol, that's a matter unconnected with any EU membership. It existed before the EU and will exist long afterwards.
MV> The list of what they do not want is long. They were only half way in MV> anyway. Or always half way out, depending on from what side yoiu look MV> at it. People are now startingto say what unti now they onlt thought: MV> The UK was never a loyal member. They were only in it for the money...
Sour grapes. I assume you know the expression.
MV> The UK will not be punished by the EU. The UK is already doing that MV> herself. But Merkel has made it clear that the UK will not be allowed MV> to have only the benefits and not the liabilities of membership. She MV> will not be punished, but she will loose the priviliges. (Which if I MV> may say so, she should never have had in the first place).
Merkel is NOT the EU, although she would like to think so, and the Germans dominate it economically. Remember that many things must, by treaty, be decided unanimously or at least by a simple majority of a full 27 states. And in past years, damned few things have been so decided.
RB>> All that will do is exacerbate an already highly emotional situation RB>> and speed the disintegration of the EU
MV> The EU will survive. One way or another.
;-) One way or another. Assuming no real revolutions of the battered populations.
RB>> in other countries if the lessons taught by the GB referendum RB>> continue to be ignored in Brussels and Berlin.
MV> On the contrary. If the others see the consequences of a Brexit, they MV> will think twice before following the UK's example.
Assumine they're net receivers, I don't doubt that. The question is how long the net givers are going to keep donating their population's hard-earned wealth. Greece comes to mind. The last time still another "loan" (which presumably will never be repaid) was debated in the German Bundestag, there was opposition even from the ruling parties. It's only a question of time before parliamentarians rebel and won't vote any more handouts. And then what?
The AfD (Alternative fuer Deutschland)? Could well be.
