MV> The divorce between the UK and the remaining 27 has reached the point MV> of no return.
True, but the conditions are yet to be decided. And you can be sure that they won't be exclusively detrimental to the UK. If the rump-EU would try to extract "revenge" for the UK's withholding of it's "love", we could have a really nasty separation that would hurt not only the UK, but the rump-EU as well.
MV>>> And Greece is out of the red numbers.
RB>> You must be kidding. They've just negotiated still another bailout, RB>> with no light at the end of the tunnel. They're happy just to pay the RB>> interest on their debt.
MV> Greece is now in the situation that they earn more than they spend.
Since when? And of course, that ignores the fact of their massive debt and the interest they still have to pay on it. You aren't rich when you have $100 in your pocket and owe $5000.
MV> Meaning there IS light at the end of the tunnel.
Doubtless starting in the year 3000.
MV> Yes, they still have an enormous debt, but they will eventually be MV> able to pay off. End of crisis.
You are surely one of the very few who believe that.
MV>>> The refugee problem predates the EU...
RB>> Sure, the avalanche really started in 2015.
MV> You have a short memory. We have had avalanches in the 60s, and MV> alomost every ten years after. We dealt withit.
My memory's still good, and the crisis started in 2015, when the real avalanches over the Mediterranean and the Balkan route started. There were no "avalanches" in the 60s (remember, I was here starting in 1966), but waves of various "guest workers", all of whom have been satisfactorily assimilated except for the Turks.
By the way, how are the South Moluccans doing in the Netherlands nowadays?
MV>>> ... and disolving the EU will not make it go away.
RB>> True enough, sonce there's no consensus within the EU now as to what RB>> to do.
MV> There has never been concensus and we have managed nevertheless.
Have we? Then why are the EU poo-bahs still trying to arrange a quota system for distributing the refugrees throughout the EU, instead of concentrating them in Germany? The Germans would tend to dispute your claim that the aituation has been "managed" - to their detriment.
And I suppose that if the Netherlands had experienced such an influx of refugrees from islamic countries, you might be slightly less tolerant of the recent waves of mostly young muslim men such as those that have engulfed Germany.
RB>>>> Plus the ECB's zero percent interest rate, which is causing not RB>>>> only savers to hoard cash, rather than invest it at zero percent RB>>>> interest, but is now leading to explosions in bank fees for all RB>>>> sorts of things, since the banks can't earn enough anymore by RB>>>> investing the money of their depositors.
MV>>> Again: this is is not an EU specific problem.
RB>> This IS an EU specific problem.
MV> No, it is not.
Why, in that case, there is no ECB and no Euro, and every EU country can set it's own interest rates and exchange rates ;-)
You don't believe that yourself.
MV> The US has exactly the same problem. Zero or negative interest is NOT MV> en EU problem.
With the major difference that a) there is a central authority to control the monetary system and b) the economic differences between the states are not even similar to those between, say, Germany and Greece. And, of course, the mentality is still relatively homogeneous throughout the country, as is the language. That's no comparison to the situation in the EU.
Germany has pushed for a central monetary authority (comparable to the Fed in the USA) for years, but made no headway with the other Eurozone members. That would be the only real solution to the problems we have, but the Europeans are too fragmented and nationalistic to accept such a loss of their individual rights. Sates' rights x 1,000,000 here. Just try to force such a system and the EU would break apart from it's own contradictions.
RB>> No Eurozone country can manage it's own currency, devaluing it to RB>> increase exports or raising the value to prevent runaway inflation.
MV> Neither can California or Texas. Yet, they manage.
Of course. If all Greeks spoke German and had the German mentality and innovation, had internationally desirable products, Greece would be on a par with Germany. Unfortunately, none of that is true.
RB>> The ECB runs _everything_, from Germany to Greece and all get the RB>> same deal, regardless of the strength of their economy and regardless RB>> of how badly they need to adjust the value of their currency.
MV> Same as the FEDs in the US. It worked for them over two centuries.
One language, one culture, roughly similar economic situations (and if not, the possibility of federal aid). You're trying to compare apples with oranges again.
MV> Dissolving the EU is not going to solve anything any more than MV> disolving the USA.
Except that the former is a possibility and the latter is not. Remember, it was tried in 1861-1865. Can you imagine the southern EU breaking away from the northern EU, abnd a civil war developing between them to keep the EU in one piece? Unthinkable.
