= Сообщение: 3974 из 12549 ====================================== ENET.SYSOP = От : Michiel van der Vlist 2:280/5555 29 Jun 16 20:52:14 Кому : David Rance 29 Jun 16 20:52:14 Тема : Brexit FGHI : area://ENET.SYSOP?msgid=2:280/5555+57742117 На : area://ENET.SYSOP?msgid=2:203/2+57738dde = Кодировка сообщения определена как: CP850 ================================== Ответ: area://ENET.SYSOP?msgid=2:203/2+577452fa ============================================================================== Hello David,
On Wednesday June 29 2016 10:59, you wrote to me:
MvdV>> Why the delay? If it is known who it will be, why can't he/she MvdV>> take office right away?
DR> Because they have to be elected by the Conservative party and DR> elections take time to organise.
Yeah, but two month?
DR> The closing date for candidates to apply is tomorrow and, at the DR> moment, it looks as though there will be eight candidates. The front [..] DR> anything can happen. Look at when Harold ("You've never had it so DR> good") MacMillan and Edward Heath got in. Neither were expected.
In politics anything can happen, so much is true.
DR>>> That's the earliest that we can invoke Article 50 after it has DR>>> been agreed in parliament.
MvdV>> Why? I mean why can't parliament decide on it tomorrow?
DR> Because a lame-duck prime minister cannot now invoke it.
Why not? Legally he is still prime minister. He has announced his resignation, but he is still in office. I see no moral objections either. While it is good practice that he makes no new major decisions, this is not a new decision. HJe had already announcde before the referendum that he would set the brexit in motion if that was the outcome of the referendum. So he would merely act on that earlier decision.
MvdV>> Which I consider a serious possibility. Boris Johnson seems to MvdV>> want access to the European economic space, but without the MvdV>> "rules from Brussels". To me that sounds like having the rights MvdV>> but not the duties. Of course that will never be accepted by MvdV>> the EU.
DR> He's calmed down quite a bit since last Thursday and is now admitting DR> that it's not possible to get what he wanted, especially with regard DR> to free movement of people. Pity he didn't do so earlier!
But how come the British people did noty see that what he proposed was impossible? If I can see that cherry picking for just the benifits won't fly, why can't the people of the UK?
MvdV>> I think the best deal that the UK can hope for is the deal that MvdV>> was made by Norway and Switzerland. Anything beyond and above MvdV>> that will not be accepted by the EU.
DR> Now there I'm inclined to agree with you.
Good.
MvdV>> But the deal with Norway and Switzerland implies accepting free MvdV>> traffic of persons, goods and capital. And it implies that they MvdV>> should pay contribution. That means the UK can not close its MvdV>> borders for EU immigrants and they will still be a net MvdV>> contributor. Both of which they do not want. So I do not see MvdV>> how that is going to work.
DR> As I said above, Boris is now admitting that it won't.
How is he going to sell it to his constituency?
DR>>> Unless, God forbid, UKIP gets in or, at least, becomes the DR>>> official Opposition.
MvdV>> UKIP is a one issue party. They got what they want. At least if MvdV>> the brexit actually materialises. Then they can disbound MvdV>> themselves, their job is done. So the best way to make UKIP MvdV>> irrelevant is to get moving with brexit.
DR> They won't disband. Farage enjoys the limelight too much. They will DR> probably now try to become the official opposition party.
You have to clearify that. Here opposition is opposition. What makes it official? Or unofficial?
MvdV>> Perhaps the UK should never have been in the EU to begin with.
DR> Again I'm inclined to agree with you. De Gaulle (wisely) kept us out DR> for a long time, and, when it came to joining in the '70s, I was DR> against it for, as I've said before, the wrong reasons.
The reason I say it because I can't help noticing that the hearts and minds of the people of the UK were never really in it. My first car a FIAT 500, had one of those oval EU stickers. That was mid sixties. They were quit common back then. Now of course we have the nationality and the twelve stars of the EU in the blue rectangle on the plates themselves. Historic lates without the blue rectangles may only be used on historic. I saw the blue rectangle on David Cameron's car. But those plates are rare in the UK. No blue rectangles om the cars of Lewis, Taggert, Barnaby, Lynley and Scott & Baily.
MvdV>> But we have no time machines and we can not undo the mistakes MvdV>> made in the past. We shall just have to live with them. I don't MvdV>> have all the answeres either.
DR> It was said by someone that those who ignore the mistakes of history DR> are doomed to repeat them. I'm sure someone here will be able to say DR> who that was.
I know. But some mistakes can only be made once...
