= Сообщение: 3980 из 12549 ====================================== ENET.SYSOP = От : Michiel van der Vlist 2:280/5555 30 Jun 16 11:18:23 Кому : David Rance 30 Jun 16 11:18:23 Тема : Brexit FGHI : area://ENET.SYSOP?msgid=2:280/5555+5774eb5d На : area://ENET.SYSOP?msgid=2:203/2+577452fa = Кодировка сообщения определена как: CP850 ================================== Ответ: area://ENET.SYSOP?msgid=2:280/5555+57750cfe ============================================================================== Hello David,
On Thursday June 30 2016 01:00, you wrote to me:
DR> But there's no-one to start working out policy. The very reason why DR> Cameron resigned is because it would be wrong for him to appoint DR> people that the next prime minister would have to work with.
I detect a circular argument. The reason that there will be a next prime minister that those people have to work with, is Cameron's resignation. Had he not resigned - as he said he woud not - there would not be this reason to resign...
DR> Nothing, but nothing, can happen until the Conservatives have sorted DR> out who, in their opinion, will be the best person to carry Brexit DR> forward.
The cause of this situation is Cameron's resignation.
AS I see it, Cameron didn't /want/ to be the one to clean up this mess. Let those who caused this mess, be the one's to clean it up. Not entirely fair IMHO, he himself is part responsible for the mess.
[ Johnson ]
MvdV>> But how come the British people did noty see that what he MvdV>> proposed was impossible? If I can see that cherry picking for MvdV>> just the benifits won't fly, why can't the people of the UK?
DR> Rhetoric! How could we make up our minds what was or wasn't possible DR> when we were fed so many lies by both sides of the argument.
How come the people were unable to se through the lies? One does not need to be Einstein to see that one can not have the cake end eat it too.
DR> They all sounded plausible.
Not to me...
DR> But the Brexit campaigners had the advantage because they were the DR> ones trying to make the changes
The UK had just negotiated better terms earlier this year. Did the brexiteers really believe they could get an even better deal from the EU?
DR> and when the Remain campaign tried to counter their arguments the DR> Leave campaign accused them of trying to spread fear.
That indeed they tried. A better strategy would have been to try to convince the people of the benefits of EU membership. But that failed because their hearths and minds were never really in it.
DR>>> As I said above, Boris is now admitting that it won't.
MvdV>> How is he going to sell it to his constituency?
DR> I've noticed that you've used "constituency" in this context before. DR> An MP's constituency is the small geographical area that elects him or DR> her to parliament. I don't think you mean that here, because, in this DR> context, the constituency is irrelevant.
Ah, there is a difference. Here MPs have no geographic ties. They are elected by and represent the entire country.
DR> Do you mean his fellow MPs or do you mean the country at large?
I meant the people that voted for leave.
DR> The largest opposition party forms the official Opposition. The leader DR> of that party has the title of Leader of Her Majesty's Opposition and DR> the post carries a higher salary. The Leader of the Opposition forms DR> what is called a Shadow Cabinet and it is exactly that - it shadows DR> members of the government. If you like, it is a kind of DR> government-in-waiting, waiting for the next general election when they DR> hope they are going to win.
Another difference. Here there is no such thing as "leader of the opposition". Ther is the coalition, the parties that have ministers in cabinet. And there is the opposition, which is all the others. All parties in the oppositon speak for themselves.
DR> Jeremy Corbyn is the Leader of the Opposition. He is in trouble DR> because over forty of his shadow cabinet (which he appointed) have DR> resigned so, effectively, there are now no Opposition spokesmen to DR> challenge the government ministers that they are shadowing.
We don't have a shodow cabinet here either.
MvdV>> in the blue rectangle on the plates themselves. Historic plates MvdV>> without the blue rectangles may only be used on historic cars. I MvdV>> saw the blue rectangle on David Cameron's car. But those plates are MvdV>> rare in the UK. No blue rectangles om the cars of Lewis, Taggert, MvdV>> Barnaby, Lynley and Scott & Baily.
DR> I'll tell you why they don't have them. It's because most British cars DR> never go abroad and therefore they don't need them.
Here lots of cars never leave the country either. But we do not have the choice. Wit very few exceptions the plates without the blue rectangle no longer legel, Sinds 2001 IIRC.
DR> You may find that difficult to understand when most people in DR> continental Europe can't drive very far without crossing a national DR> border. Look at the cars in those programmes you've mentioned. None of DR> them even have the oval GB sticker.
Ij the old days, before the introdcution in 2001 of plates with the blue reactangle and the white NL oval was required to cross the border, not all cars had it either.
DR> If you want EU plates in the UK you have to ask for them. They don't DR> cost any extra.
There is the difference, here there is no choice. And no, one does not hear people moaning about "EU dictatorship" over that.
DR> When I bought my present car twelve years ago I had to specifically DR> ask for EU plates as I probably drive more in France than I do in DR> England, and I've taken this car to Germany, Austria, Hungary, DR> Italy, Spain, Belgium and Holland
You must not be a typical British car owner. ANd it is The Netrlands BTW, not Holland.
DR> I hate those oval GB stickers. They look messy and there's never DR> an obvious place to put them! My late wife's car - and she was the DR> most Europhile person I've ever met - doesn't have EU plates.
That's what I mean.
DR> I ordered a new car a few weeks ago but won't take delivery of it DR> until, at the earliest, September. I have already specified that I DR> want EU plates. I suppose I won't get them now! Back to those awful GB DR> stickers! :-(
There may be a way out. Before Poland joined the EU, they had plates with a blue rectangle and the country code. With the polish flag in the place of the twelve yellow stars.
