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Присутствуют сообщения из эхоконференции ENET.SYSOP с датами от 10 Jul 13 21:42:12 до 04 Oct 24 12:06:02, всего сообщений: 12556
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= Сообщение: 5254 из 12556 ====================================== ENET.SYSOP =
От   : Michiel van der Vlist            2:280/5555         22 Aug 17 12:28:23
Кому : David Rance                                         22 Aug 17 12:28:23
Тема : Swedish meatballs ...
FGHI : area://ENET.SYSOP?msgid=2:280/5555+599c0749
На   : area://ENET.SYSOP?msgid=2:203/2+599a00e8
= Кодировка сообщения определена как: CP850 ==================================
Ответ: area://ENET.SYSOP?msgid=2:280/5003.4+599c1269
Ответ: area://ENET.SYSOP?msgid=2:203/2+599ff8ea
==============================================================================
Hello David,

On Sunday August 20 2017 23:36, you wrote to me:

MvdV>> That explains why singer is pronounced the way it is, it does
MvdV>> not explain why Ginger is not pronounced in rhime with singer.
MvdV>> Or why Ginger is not spelled Djindzjer.

DR> Because we don't spell that way. Only the languages that don't have
DR> our soft "g" sound have to use "dj". And we don't have the soft "g"
DR> sound that there is in, say, French.

You propably read it too. In Gödel.Escher.Bach by Douglas Hofstadter, a superior being that can grant wishes is called a "djin". It is not spelled "gin". OK, Hofstadteris an American, but still...

MvdV>> And BTW would someone who singes be a singer, buit pronounced
MvdV>> as sindzjer?

DR> Yes.

So, a homograph.


MvdV>>>> Why does Reading (the place) rhime with Redding? (as in Otis)

DR>>> I had an uncle whose surname was Reading (pronounced Redding)
DR>>> and an aunt whose maiden name was Redding (pronounced Redding).

MvdV>> These things baffle me. If it is pronounced Redding, why is it
MvdV>> not spelled redding?

DR> It was at one time. But, as with a lot of words in English, the
DR> English tried to "posh them up" at bit. And so we have "humour"
DR> whereas the American have the original spelling of "humor". In the
DR> case of my uncle, it was a matter of how his forebears thought they
DR> ought to spell the name, and so some of them spelled it "Reading" and
DR> some "Redding". I found this out while researching my family tree.

When it comes to names, this is understandable. Common Dutch names also appear in variants. Kok, Kock, Cock.

MvdV>>>> Why does Worchester rhime wit booster?

DR>>> Worcester. And it doesn't quite rhyme with booster. The "u"
DR>>> sound is shorter, like u without an umlaut in German.

MvdV>> The 'u' as in "Kurt"  or as in "Burt"?

DR> As in "Kurt".

I can't hear the difference, bit OK....

MvdV>> I know about Fenshaw. It was a gag in an episode of inspector
MvdV>> Linley.

DR> And it is the middle name of the eponymous character in
DR> P.G.Wodehouse's Ukridge - "Stanley Featherstonehaugh Ukridge - the man
DR> of many schemes."

Yes, I think we discussed this before. A decade ago or so.. ;-)

DR>>> And bow can be pronounced in two ways according to whether it's
DR>>> how to tie a knot or whether it's an acknowledgement.

MvdV>> Things like that are very hard for non native speakers.
MvdV>> Homographs are very rare in most other languages.

DR> You get a lot of homophones in French:

DR> Ver (a worm), verre (a glass), and vert (green)
DR> Mer (the sea), mère (mother) and maire (a mayor)
DR> Poids (weight), pois (a pea or peas) and poix (tar).

Those are homophones, not homographs.

Homographs are very rare in Dutch. There used to be some in Fidonet when accents were still banned.

voorkómen      to prevent
vóórkomen      tp appear in court.

een            the article "a", as in "a pear"
één            the number one, as in "one pear"

In Ducht Fidonet we used to circumvent the use of banned accents by writing e1n for the number one. Or capitals . voorkOmen vs vOOrkomen. Fortunately now that he ban on non ASCII has ben dropped, these work arounds are no longer needed. Reading is much more comfortable when accents are used.

As you can see in Dutch the accent is used more or less the same as the Umlaut in German. In Dutch the diaresis is not an Umlaut, it is used as a trema. To signal that a diphtong like 'oe' is to be pronounced as two different vowels. Noël.


Cheers, Michiel

--- GoldED+/W32-MSVC 1.1.5-b20170303
* Origin: http://www.vlist.eu (2:280/5555)

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