= Сообщение: 4756 из 12549 ====================================== ENET.SYSOP = От : Ward Dossche 2:292/854 16 Apr 17 14:39:27 Кому : Robert Bashe 16 Apr 17 14:39:27 Тема : Re: Brexit, It giet oan! FGHI : area://ENET.SYSOP?msgid=2:292/854+a4051458 На : area://ENET.SYSOP?msgid=2:2448/44+58f33f30 = Кодировка сообщения определена как: ASCII ================================== Ответ: area://ENET.SYSOP?msgid=2:2448/44+58f48ea4 ============================================================================== Hey Bob,
RB> Is it? The IMF appears to have doubts, and the only reason the EU still RB> pours good money after bad is that it fears a domino effect if Greece RB> goes bust.
Actually, the reason why money is poured into Greece is because it's determined by treaties. In the end Greece will survive and hopefully become a contributor. When Tsipras was elected he made all kinds of promises and the Greeks went for it ... I think he's a good man trying to do a good job but eventually understood salvaging Greece was not something achieved in a few weeks. Mediterranean people too much believe in 'one remedy cures all' policies ... Tsipras was one, Berlusconi an otherone, now we have the election in Turkey which is ongoing and probably will be won by Erdogan ... people believe in such kinds of gods while they have very little to offer to the people. You don't trust career politicians either ... I know you don't.
But Tsipras deserves credit.
Greece wasn't broke because of Europe, but because of Greece itself, and Europa was the onlyone salvaging it. Russia was modestly involved but backed away, China backed away, the US were not even remotely interested ... Europe came to save it, not just by pouring money into a bottomless pit but by also imposing austerity programs which were hurtful, but which in the end also will allow the country to crawl out of the pit and stand on its own feet again.
RB> True. Sorry I forgot that. But on the other hand, elections were coming RB> up in the Netherlands and a soft stance with an opponent like Geert RB> Wilders would have been political suicide.
With all due respect, but there are not enough idiots in the Netherlands to make a person like Wilders succeed. I'm much more fearful of Marine Le Pen in France. The dominos stopped tumbling in the Netherlands, if that continues in France then we have a better shot at the future.
RB> Unfortunately very naive. All you mean is thatr we sacrifice still more RB> personal freedom for the questionalbe benefit of (perhaps, but not RB> necessarily) more security.
Any of the European countries on their own, stands nowhere on the world trading level. The option is simple ... stand with the US and be screwed, stand with Russia and be screwed, stand with China and be screwed, or stand with Europe and be part of the ball game.
RB> You're talking about a "United States of Europe", which is exactly what RB> many of the EU members rabidly reject.
It's coming ... whether you like it or not, maybe another 50 years or so and I don't think I'll live to see it ... but it's coming. Change is inevitable.
RB> (some countries even have multiple cultures inside RB> their own borders, like Belgium)
We do?
RB> Hungary and Poland are only the beginning.
None of these have any realistic plans for leaving, if they do then the money-faucet is turned shut and they're stuck with their little insignificant economies. People may talk about it and the only reason why Le Pen now has it on her program is because she's riding the UK wave, that wave will stop. None of the members in the east have any intention for leaving, that'd be economic suicide for them and force a return to the Russian bear. Ain't gonna happen.
RB>MV> None of them is threatening to leave...
RB> Not YET.
None will, it's their only shot at being meaningful at the global level or drop to levels of Zimbabwe.
RB> And the other would have been to realize that the UK had a problem and RB> try to fix it within the framework of the EU. But nobody really tried RB> that.
UK politics are still conducted as in the 1930's when Britain zas some kind of a world power, diminishing, but still. After WW2 they were just a simple country in Europe, like so many others.
RB> And London. What you describe is the setting up of branches in EU cities, RB> through which business can continue as usual.
No, Bob, international traders doing business out of London are ready to relocate, I've got friends working in London and 2-3 years from now the trading floors will have shifted. My bet is Frankfurt.
RB> ;-) Can they? Anyway, I never really got used to shifting with my left RB> hand when I was in Sough Africa.
I loved it in Ireland, though I'll admit I have scared the shit out of some people by driving on the right hand side of the street and negotiating a roundabout on the right side. 8-)
