MvdV> On Sunday August 18 2019 14:58, you wrote to me:
DR>> And therein lies the difficulty. It seems to be generally agreed that, DR>> because we weren't given the full facts of a Brexit and a not DR>> inconsiderable number of lies, then to make us abide by that decision DR>> is showing an inflexibility which denies any repair of the damage DR>> done. One could say that the outcome was engineered from the start to DR>> produce a result that suited the minority simply by muddling facts DR>> with lies in a populist way that would be sure to appeal to a DR>> majority. In the event the majority wasn't large so it nearly didn't DR>> come off, but I believe that it wasn't representative of what the DR>> British people really wanted.
MvdV> 1) We get contradicting reports. Some say that that public opinion has MvdV> turned and the majority of the UKians is now in favour of "remain". MvdV> Other reports say that the majority is still in favour of "leave", with MvdV> or without a deal.
I'm not sure I have time to correct all your conclusions this Monday morning as writing these messages takes me a long time.
Anyway, firstly: we don't *know* what public opinion is. All I've given is what *I* think and, contrary to what you might think, I'm not always right! ;-)
MvdV> 2) Feeding the voters misinformation and lies does not make a vote MvdV> invalid.
I never said it was invalid.
MvdV> 3) Some would argue that those who claim the referendum does not MvdV> represent the true will of the people and another referendum should be MvdV> held, are just unable to accept a democratic decision...
And there Boris and all the leavers would agree with you.
DR>> This smacks more of a dictatorship than a democracy.
MvdV> Pardon my French, but this is baloney. The one calling for the MvdV> referendum was democratically elected. Nobody put a gun to the people's MvdV> head and told them to vote for "leave".
I didn't say that it *was* a dictatorship, I said it was tending towards a dictatorship under the guise of democratic freedom.
MvdV> Like you, I believe the people of the Uk made a wrong decision. But the MvdV> people making a decison that you or I believe to be wrong is part of MvdV> democracy. Dictatorship is when people are NOt allowed to make "wrong" MvdV> decisions.
And that's where we could eventually end up! :-(
MvdV> A new referendum will not get you out if the impasse. It is too late MvdV> for that now. If I get it right this is the time table.
MvdV> In case of a vote of no confidence the government has two weeks to MvdV> convince the house to make a new agreement. If no agreement, there is MvdV> another five weeks for candiates to prepare and campaign.
MvdV> The House of commons returns from Holiday on 3 September. Suppose they MvdV> hold a vote of no confidence on 4 September. Suppose that vote gets a MvdV> majority (which remains to be seen). Parliament will be disbanded on 20 MvdV> Septenber. Tradition has it that voting is on Thursday. First Thursday MvdV> after five weeks is 31 October.
MvdV> So there you have it. No way that a new government can be installed and MvdV> hold a referendum before Brexit day.
MvdV> I didn't make those rules, I just tell it how I see it. Correct me if I MvdV> am wrong.
Well, you're wrong. All things in parliament can be speeded up. Tradition can be overturned because it's not written into law. And the first thing to happen is that another extension would be sought and, according to what I've read, we don't need the agreement of twenty-seven countries to do it. But you'll tell me if I'm wrong there.
MvdV> Which raises the question: If the people of the UK really wanted a new MvdV> referendum why did they not act before it was too late? An oppotunity MvdV> would heva been when Theresa May called for an election.
That's just nonsense. How can the "people" demand a new referendum? Ask for a referendum to have a new referendum? People have been asking for a new referendum but it's not up to the "people".
DR>> No! A two thirds majority should be to *change* the status quo!
MvdV> [advocate of devil mode]
MvdV> The status quo is that the UK has decided to leave. Has been the status MvdV> quo for over three years. Reversing that decision is changing the MvdV> status quo.
The status quo is that, at the present moment, we *are* members of the EU and that's what we would be voting on.
That's all I have time for this morning.
David (in France)
P.S. On the present Brexit day I shall be in Vienna as an eightieth birthday present from my children. We are supposed to be travelling back on the 1st November. This was all booked before 31st October became the new Brexit date. I wonder if we shall be able to return unscathed ...
-- Formerly ICHTHUS (Reading) UK (1987-2007 R.I.P.) (2:292/854.110)
