= Сообщение: 8910 из 12489 ====================================== ENET.SYSOP = От : David Rance 2:203/2 21 Aug 19 10:10:45 Кому : Michiel van der Vlist 21 Aug 19 10:10:45 Тема : Brexit FGHI : area://ENET.SYSOP?msgid=2:203/2+5d5cfc80 На : area://ENET.SYSOP?msgid=2:280/5555+5d5bc38f = Кодировка сообщения определена как: ASCII ================================== Ответ: area://ENET.SYSOP?msgid=2:280/5555.1+5d5ee5ef ============================================================================== On Tue, 20 Aug 2019 11:15:39 Michiel van der Vlist -> David Rance wrote:
MvdV> On Monday August 19 2019 13:12, you wrote to you:
DR>>>>> This smacks more of a dictatorship than a democracy.
MvdV>>>> Pardon my French, but this is baloney. The one calling for the MvdV>>>> referendum was democratically elected. Nobody put a gun to the MvdV>>>> people's head and told them to vote for "leave".
DR>>> I didn't say that it *was* a dictatorship, I said it was tending DR>>> towards a dictatorship under the guise of democratic freedom.
MvdV> You used the word "smacks" which is not in my vocabulary. So consider MvdV> it a "lost in translation" case.
Sorry, a colloquialism. In that context it means "tending towards", "having the appearance of". It doesn't mean it actually is.
MvdV> In any case, I disagree. Yes, the people were not told the truth, the MvdV> whole truth and nothing but the truth. But adult voters know or at MvdV> least should know, that is what politicians do. And so the voters MvdV> should take that into account when making up their mind.
They can only make up their mind on what they have been told. And most people believe only what they can read/hear in the media.
MvdV> Calling for a new election because the outcome was not to his liking is MvdV> what Erdogan did with the March election for the mayor of Ankara. He MvdV> declared the election invalid and ordered a redo. Fortunately it MvdV> failed, but this is what wannabee dictators do: not accepting the MvdV> result of a democratic election bcause the outcome is "wrong" and MvdV> calling for a redo and repeat that until the outcome is "right".
MvdV> Isn't his what is happening in the UK right now? Attempting to have e MvdV> new referendum because the outcome was "wrong"?
Not quite. Erdogan was one person who wanted power for himself. Our situation is that it is much of the population who want it, not for power, but for their own livelihood.
MvdV>>>> Which raises the question: If the people of the UK really MvdV>>>> wanted a new referendum why did they not act before it was too MvdV>>>> late? An oppotunity would heva been when Theresa May called MvdV>>>> for an election.
DR>> The facts and lies became far more evident after the election so there DR>> was no call for a referendum at that point.
MvdV> Oh, c'mon... From this side of the white cliffs of Dover, it was very MvdV> clear from the start that what the Brexiteers pesented as fact was MvdV> untrue.
YES!! But only a minority could see that. And if the remainers complained that any claims by the leavers weren't true, the leavers would say they were scaremongering. Unfortunately Boris managed to whip up the hysteria for leaving as to make leavers unable to form a balanced judgement. I would lay this whole sorry mess at his door.
MvdV> 0.35 Giga Pound a week to the EU? Which could be spend on NHS after MvdV> Brexit? Sorry, David, any voter believing that deserves what he/she MvdV> gets.. :-(
Please don't think that the average person is as intelligent as you or me. We can think for ourselves, most can't. You are seeing it from the perspective of your own country. People in this country could not see it objectively. We have had a constant stream for years of "you can't do this" or "you can't do that" because "the EU won't let us", which was patently untrue but most people didn't have the wherewithall to discover the real truth. Some things would come out but only when it affected us personally, such as the case my wife had with the E112. And did we publish it? No, because no-one would listen to us!
DR>> It depends on what the referendum asks us to vote on. If the question DR>> is, "Should we overturn the result of the previous referendum" then DR>> that is the status quo. If a new referendum ask the same question as DR>> the last time then that presupposes the status quo is that we are at DR>> present members of the EU.
MvdV> But of course the Brexiteers would never agree to a 2/3 majority in the MvdV> latter case.
Of course they wouldn't!
David
-- Formerly ICHTHUS (Reading) UK (1987-2007 R.I.P.) (2:292/854.110) Former sysop writing in retirement from Le Mesnil Villement, Calvados, France
