= Сообщение: 9208 из 12492 ====================================== ENET.SYSOP = От : David Rance 2:203/2 31 Dec 19 12:58:21 Кому : Michiel van der Vlist 31 Dec 19 12:58:21 Тема : Brexit FGHI : area://ENET.SYSOP?msgid=2:203/2+5e0b37dc На : area://ENET.SYSOP?msgid=2:280/5555+5e0a83fc = Кодировка сообщения определена как: ASCII ================================== Ответ: area://ENET.SYSOP?msgid=2:280/5555+5e0f61d9 ============================================================================== On Mon, 30 Dec 2019 23:37:29 Michiel van der Vlist -> David Rance wrote:
MvdV>>> The UK joined the European Union, but the hearts and minds of MvdV>>> the Brits were never fully in it. Not joining the Euro, not MvdV>>> joining Schengen, driving on the other side of the road, MvdV>>> imperial measures...
DR>> <sigh> Yes, I know. I would have preferred to have joined the Euro DR>> then I'd have no problem in having to exchange currency when DR>> transferring my money to my French bank account.
MvdV> When I order something on-line from Germany, Belgium or France, I can MvdV> pay by on-line bank transfer just the same as if the order was placed MvdV> in The Neterlands. Also the goods arrive within a day or two.
It's the same for me when ordering from Europe. I use a sterling credit card with an extremely good rate of exchange and no charges for the conversion to euros and with a low limit just in case of problems. I sometimes use PayPal if the card doesn't work.
I've never had problems when using a card - except for once when I used it at a hotel in Waterloo. I'm fairly sure that someone at the hotel desk skimmed it because later that day it was blocked by the issuer. On ringing the issuer, they said that it had been used in New York for a purchase. But I was more suspicious of the issuer as they blocked the card on other occasions for no good reason. For the last twelve years I've used another card with another issuer (and a better exchange rate!) with no problems.
Tell me, why don't the Dutch banks allow the use of credit cards? Or is that just for foreign credit cards? I can use my credit card in any European country that I've visited without let or hindrance, but I can't in the Netherlands. At least, not in retail establishments, only to withdraw euros from a bank cash machine. It was embarrassing when Ann and I had a meal in a restaurant in Middelburg and they wouldn't accept my card!
MvdV> My wife Rosa collects dolls. In October she found a doll on E-bay that MvdV> she very much wanted to have. It was offered by a seller in the UK. The MvdV> price was 20 Pound. An additional 20 Pound for sending. So after some MvdV> hesitation, I said, OK, let's give it a try. The seller's first option MvdV> was PayPall, but I don't trust them. So I suggested an IBAN transfer. MvdV> After exchanging mails for a couple of days, the seller gave me an IBAN MvdV> number. I ordered my bank to do the transfer. To my surprise the bank MvdV> charged me EUR 8, transfer cost. This didn't take minutes as is usual MvdV> with international bank transfers within the Eurozone, but it took MvdV> almost a week. And then it started, The seller send the package by MvdV> Royal mail. But the tracking code stopped at the UK border. I had no MvdV> way to track the package beyond the UK border. Apparently there is no MvdV> good comunication between UK Mail and its Continental partners. I MvdV> waited and waited and waited. After two weeks I finally tracked the MvdV> parcel to Post NL and it turned out they made one attempt to deliver MvdV> but we were not at home. No message, no nothing. So the parcel was MvdV> returned to sender. The sender agreed to another try and we finally got MvdV> it. It took a month and I paid EUR 50 for a 20 Pound doll. This was MvdV> before Brexit.... The systems just do not interface between the UK and the EU...
MvdV> No way I will ever again buy something on-line in the UK...
It does sound from what you've written (and this is why I haven't edited it) that the delay was more to do with what happened once the goods had left England. I've had no such problems in the other direction. It wasn't the fault of the sender that Post NL didn't carry out their proper instructions. Nor that the tracking information wasn't taken up when it arrived in the Netherlands.
DR>> But then it would have been bad for the UK economy.
MvdV> Would it? Really?
MvdV> By that same reasoning Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland should MvdV> never have joined the Pound Sterling and have kept their own currency MvdV> instead.
That's not a very sensible statement, is it? I thought we were being serious.
DR>> Schengen? - well we didn't hear about that until years after it DR>> happened. I think the first I'd heard of it was from Ward here - if DR>> you can believe that!
MvdV> I know, I watched it happen. But then how come the UK people never MvdV> heard about schengen? Did the government hide it from them?
Our government hid a lot of the benefits from us. I often quote the case of my late wife who had dental treatment in France and, in order to have the NHS pay for it, she had to get an E112 form. Every time she applied for one she was told it didn't exist. In the end she was asked how she'd heard of it. That was an admission that it did exist and that they had deliberately hidden it. Eventually, of course, she was sent one but it took a lot of persistence.
And the other one that I quote about the government keeping quiet is where we *receive* benefits from the EU, notably the farmers, thus making it seem that the EU takes all and gives nowt.
DR>> Driving on the other side of the road? Well we drive on the *correct* DR>> side of the road. Even the Americans get that wrong (Hello, Janis!).
MvdV> I once heard an argument based on the fact that most man are right MvdV> handed and so swordsman carried their sword on the left. This should MvdV> favour one side in case of defending against an attack by robbers from MvdV> an ambush. The fact that I forgot which side it favours is telling. I MvdV> do not know of any compelling objective argument in favour of left or MvdV> right drive.
MvdV> But what I do know is that mixing the two is unsafe. You yourself have MvdV> been in a car crash caused by someone driving on the "other side". MvdV> Traffic would be safer if every driver's reflexes were tuned to driving MvdV> on the /same/ side. And the majority drives on the right side of the MvdV> road...
The number of accidents causing by driving on the wrong side of the road is minuscule compared with accidents caused by, for instance, drink-driving. It costs far less to try to educate people again drink-driving (and it is having some success - it is much more socially acceptable in the UK to refuse alcohol if one is then going to drive, even at Christmas) than to change to driving on the right.
DR>> Imperial measures? Well we're half and half. I have a set of weights DR>> for both systems in my kitchen. But we do have to sells goods in DR>> metric (we passed that law years ago).
MvdV> Hmmm... Earlier today I saw a sign with "speed limit 60 mph" in a news MvdV> flash. OK, that was Northern Ireland. But that it still the UK isn't it?
I wrote "But we do have to *sell* goods in metric". Where do we sell 60mph??? We sell fuel in litres. We sell groceries, drinks, etc., when sold by weight, in kilos. And any retailer selling in imperial only is prosecuted. What more do you want? Oh yes, kph!
MvdV>>> Plus that after 31 jan, you will only be half out. The UK will MvdV>>> still have to follow all the EU rules until 31 Dec. You will go MvdV>>> from half in to half out.
DR>> No, we (and I mean the Brits generally) will go from half out to half DR>> in, based on the idea that we're getting what (we think) we want!
MvdV> I am afraid that those who think that way are in for a dissapointment. MvdV> But it was their choice...
And what facts do you have to back that up? Sorry, but when you talk us down, your facts are often either wrong or non-existent! [See above]
Of course, *some* people are going to be disappointed (such as myself) and so a generalised statement like yours is always going to be partly true, thus you will always be able to say, "I told you so!" ;-)
And so shall I! :-)
David
-- Formerly ICHTHUS (Reading) UK (1987-2007 R.I.P.) (2:292/854.110)
