= Сообщение: 7632 из 12491 ====================================== ENET.SYSOP = От : Kees van Eeten 2:280/5003.4 28 Oct 18 13:22:22 Кому : Henri Derksen 28 Oct 18 13:22:22 Тема : New DAILYLST Z2-DAILY. FGHI : area://ENET.SYSOP?msgid=2:280/5003.4+5bd5b77c На : area://ENET.SYSOP?msgid=2:280/1208@FidoNet+9616812f = Кодировка сообщения определена как: LATIN1 ================================= ============================================================================== Hello Henri!
27 Oct 18 23:32, you wrote to Ward Dossche:
HD> 33600 is a useless baudrate, as the serial port can not handle that speed. HD> And at the oder side 57600 and 115200 are interesting as a DTE from/to DCE HD> speeds, that counts because of OnLine Data Compression between the modems, HD> I.e: HD> _ _ HD> BBS ===|_|--- Pots --- Exchange --- VoIP --- |_|=== Node/Point/User HD> 57600 28800 + V42 Bis 28800 115200 HD> DTE DCE DCE DTE
HD> What speed should be used in de Nodelist? HD> Yes 57600, because that's the max throughput with OnLine Data Compression. HD> So the caller has to set his speeds the same or higher. HD> That's the function of mentioning the speeds besides the modem protocols.
HD> 10 years ago I got more 14400 links than 28800 with VoIP nodes, HD> but last year I got very good results at 28800 mostly. So it's better now.
I know you are very fond of specifications, and your reasoning is correcrly built on them.
However, you should look at the timeline of fidonet and when specifications were introduced and wher they are relevant.
When I was introduced to Fidonet, the main main program to use was Fido by Tom Jenning. Software like RA and frontdoor and whatever else that came forth, did not exist. Fido was somewhere in it's sub 10 version.
Modem for home use were difficult to come by and the first modems that supported AT commands did not reach the market.
My first modem was built by ATT supported the european 300 baud and had a weight of some 15 Kg.
There were other modems that could support othet speeds. It was inportant to know what speed the other side supported, otherwise you could not make a connection. The multi speed modems had to be told what speed to run, and many were not buffered, so the speed between the modem and the computer had to be set, at the conneting speed.
To facillitate the above, there was a field in de nodelist, that could hold the modem speed that should be connected to. If it did not match the speeds your modem supported, the was no possibillity of connecting, the mailer program could make these decisions and set de speed of the serial port. Nothing more, nothing less.
The smarter modems were built and compression type were implemented, these were covered by a free field extention in the nodelist after tne speed value. Newer software was intruduced as wel as a command language, to tell modems what special tricks to perform. Speeds were virtually increased by fase mode modulation and whatever methods have been used.
The with compression added, data rates on connections varied and had no relation to the data rate between the modem and the computer, but the best option was to set the speed between the computer and the modem above the actual speed of the connection between the modems. In most cases the highes speed the computer supported, was chosen.
This removed the requirement of the mailer program to set the speed of the serial port. Provisions in mailer programs were made to set the top speed of the serial port and ignore the nodelist for setting that speed.
In essence the only use of the speeds in the nodelist, was for calculating transmission cost.
If today I would set your speed value in the nodelist at 300, my system will not connect at 300 baud, nor will the serial port be set at that speed. The speed from my computer will rmain at it's maximum value and your and my modem will decice what protocols they have in common and wich will be used at a datarate that will be possible. That rate will be far higer as the 300 baud my mailer will find in the nodelist. But if I leave the value at the level it is now in the nodelist, the connecting speed will never be that high. The current transmission methods that are used between telefone exchanges are often digital. Fase shift keyed analog signals have a hard time to survive conversions from analog to digital and back. The result will be that connections speeds between your and my system will usually be about half of what the modems could accomplish on an oldfasioned analog connection.
It is totally irrelevant of what is mentioned in the nodelist. So where is the speed value used for today, when looking at the software the uses thid value. The only real use, that I see, is that you can tell Pots mailers not to make connections to nodes that support a certain speed. Well nobody wnat to make connections at 300 baud, so it has become a habit to mark IP only nodes with a speed of 300. The mailers are set to not connect at that speed. This prevents handling mail to IP only systems by POTS mailers.
The proposals you make is to require that the nodelist comforms to modern definitions that have superceded the requirements of the past to be applied to the current nodelist. There is no need for these new requirements, because they describe the communication between "modern" modem to modem connection, not the communication between the modem and the computer.
The same goes for the flags, where they describe the modem/modem protocol. There is no longer a need for the mailer to have any knowledge there. Just putting them there because they exist in the specs will have no influence on how connections are made.
A lot of words,
But maybe a more realistic description of the world of fidonet.
Kees
--- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5 * Origin: As for me, all I know is that, I know nothing. (2:280/5003.4)
