= Сообщение: 8443 из 12492 ====================================== ENET.SYSOP = От : Michiel van der Vlist 2:280/5555 01 Apr 19 00:04:09 Кому : David Rance 01 Apr 19 00:04:09 Тема : R25 FGHI : area://ENET.SYSOP?msgid=2:280/5555+5ca14a9e На : area://ENET.SYSOP?msgid=2:203/2+5ca0e3a6 = Кодировка сообщения определена как: CP850 ================================== Ответ: area://ENET.SYSOP?msgid=2:292/854+0a3d1e17 ============================================================================== Hello David,
On Sunday March 31 2019 17:58, you wrote to me:
MvdV>> I am sure many people in the EU are just as frustrated about it MvdV>> as the people in the UK. The people in Brussels are losing MvdV>> their patience and the uncertainty is bad for bussines.
DR> It's just as bad for us.
I don't think so. I'd say it is worse for you. The reality is that Britannia no longer rules the waves. Today the UK is no more than a middle sized country. Of the remaing 27 EU members, no one rules the waves either any more, but together they still are a sizable economy. Our traders will find other markets for their products. They always do. It will hit you much harder.
MvdV>> Plus that a change of government is unlikely to solve the MvdV>> problem. Which basically is that a border can not be both MvdV>> visible and invisible. Choices will have to be made, one can MvdV>> not have the cake and eat it too.
DR> Would that the choice were that simple. If we don't get the question DR> of the Irish border right then we shall be back to the troubles and DR> bombings that we had before the Good Friday Agreement. Already the DR> situation is on a knife-edge.
Face reality. There is just one way to get the situation of the Irish border right and that is to have the EU/UK border somewhere else. The people of Northern island will have to make the choice between the return of the troubles or the rational choice of laying the border in the Irish sea, effectively seperating them from the UK and joining the republic.
A choice will have to be made. If they do not make the choice, it will be made for them. MvdV>> One can blame Nigel Farrage, but in a democracy politicians do MvdV>> not have more power than the voters allow them to have. They MvdV>> could have said "no" to Farrage...
DR> I didn't mean Nigel Farage. He is still active in one way or another.
Ah, ok, I misunderstood.
DR> I was talking about David Cameron who promised to have that referendum DR> in the first place without spelling out to us what advantages we would DR> lose by not being in the EU.
Tony Blair told the people of the UK that he had seen proof that Saddam Hussein could launch an attack with chemical weapons in 45 minutes. From that the people of the UK should have learned that politicians should not be trusted on their word.
Yes, the people of the UK were made to believe that they could leave the EU and keep most of the benefits of membership while being freed of the duties.
But how come they were so gullable? Did they not know that when something sounds too good to be true, it just isn't?
DR> He assumed that the British would do what they usually do and vote for DR> the status quo, just as they did when Harold Wilson called a DR> referendum about staying in 1975. Yes, we voted to leave three years DR> ago but it divided the country almost equally, giving the Leave vote DR> only a slight majority. If the Leave group hadn't told us a lot of DR> lies about how many billions of pounds we would save by coming out and DR> giving that money to the National Health Service, Leave would not have DR> won. Now that we know that to be a lie,
How come it was not recognised as a lie right away? How come the people of the UK did not realise that if you resign as a member of the club and stop paying the contribution, you are no longer welcome to eat at the club's dinner table?
DR> if we were to have another referendum *now* I am convinced that there DR> would be a sizeable majority in favour of remaining.
Possibly. But it may be too late to repair the damage...
DR> And no-one had thought then about the problem of the Irish border - DR> except the Irish.
Not just the Irish. Many people this side of the channel saw it too. /I/ saw it right away. The Republic of Ireland remaining in the EU, AND the UK leaving the EU, AND Northern Ireland remaining part of the UK, AND not having a border between Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland, is a set of conditions that can never be satified.
DR> The English couldn't see past their own back doorstep.
And now they will have to face the consequence of their short sightedness...
DR> In fact, it *was* only the English that voted to leave. The Scots, DR> Welsh and Northern Irish all voted to remain.
Indeed. And it may lead to the desintegration of the UK in the long run. :(
DR> I want to remain and always have.
I sympathise with you, and I wish guys like you had been able to convince the rest of the people of the UK that they were making the wrong choice, but I am afraid it is too late now. The damage has been done.
As I told you three years ago, many this side of the channel never saw the UK as a loyal member of the EU. Always wanting just the benefits. Always wanting special exemptions. I can still hear Margareth Thatcher say "we want a better deal". Not joining the Euro, not joining the Schengen agreement, not joining whatever did not fit the the "cherry picking doctine". The Uk has always been just half in half out.
So even if there were to be a new referendum and the people of the UK decided they want to remain anyway, the situation will never be the same. Too much has happened in the meantime. The girl may come back on her decision to dump the boy, but the boy may have lost interest and moved on...
DR>>> resign at this point in time, one was Michael Gove. If Michael DR>>> Gove were to replace her, albeit temporarily, then that would be DR>>> a piece of Fidonet history. For the first time, an ex-Fido sysop DR>>> would become a prime minister!
MvdV>> Could we entice him to return as an active node? :)
DR> I don't think you would want him. He has a record of stabbing his DR> friends in the back!
I will keep that in mind when he asks for a node number in R28 ;-)
