= Сообщение: 8596 из 12492 ====================================== ENET.SYSOP = От : Michiel van der Vlist 2:280/5555 23 May 19 01:24:46 Кому : Björn Felten 23 May 19 01:24:46 Тема : Stop Brexit now (if possible)! FGHI : area://ENET.SYSOP?msgid=2:280/5555+5ce5db8b На : area://ENET.SYSOP?msgid=2:203/2+5ce2adfe = Кодировка сообщения определена как: CP850 ================================== Ответ: area://ENET.SYSOP?msgid=2:203/2+5ce80042 ============================================================================== Hello Björn,
On Monday May 20 2019 15:39, you wrote to me:
MvdV>> The sad reality is that the UK has never been a loyal member of MvdV>> the EU.
Your response does not surprise me. I knew your position on this.
BF> I'd like to say that that's not sad. The bureaucrats in Brussels BF> need a constant reminder of what their agenda is.
Contrary to the bureaucrats in Stockholm?
BF> The more they try to regulate the member states, the more like the USA BF> the EU will become.
There are plenty of things I do not like about the US. So many in fact that I would not want to live there. But it also has some good points. One of the things that apeals to me is the "united" part of "United States of America". The undeniable fact is that the US has become the #1 economy in the world because of the "united". They would never have come this far if they had not taken that step 200 years ago.
BF> If the EU would have stayed with the original agenda,
If humanity had stayed with the original agenda, we would still have a fur coat and live in trees. If the vertebrates had stayed with the original agenda, we would never have ventured on land and we would still be fish.
BF> we wouldn't have the present oversized, overpriced political BF> monstrosity.
The EU is not perfect, but it is neither oversized, overpriced or a monstruosity.
BF> The more they try to take control of the member states, using MEPs BF> that comes from the outcasts from local parties and often getting paid BF> even more than the prime ministers in said states, the more stupid BF> decisions they will make.
Odd. Not so long ago you were campaigning to take one of those positions yourself as a representative of the Pirate Party...
BF> The EU never was intended to be a political union (á là USA) but as a BF> trade union.
The objective was to never again have European countries fight each other on the battle field. Trade was the means, not a goal in itself. It has worked (almost) for well over half a century.
But now that some idiot some 90 degrees west of here has converted trade into a weapon of war, that means is not as usefull and effective as it once was and we may have to find something else to continue to live in peace.
BF> England
Just England? Not the the UK? So not Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland?
BF> soon realized this and started objecting to the European Political BF> Union that the EU was slowly becoming. England seems to be the only BF> member state that constantly has put the EU under proper scrutiny.
A political union has been the idea from the beginning. If England did not want that, they should not have joined in the first place.
MvdV>> The Brittish never joined the Euro, they never joined the MvdV>> Schengen agrreement.
BF> No, that Euro statement is not true. They didn't want to join the EMU BF> proposal,
Bottom line: they have not joined the Euro.
BF> where EU gets total control of the entire national economy of all the BF> member states.
The Netherlands is in the Euro. The EU has some, but nothing like total control over the Dutch economy.
BF> Just like Sweden and Denmark didn't want to. We would happily convert BF> our Krona to Euro, but like hell that we would give up the control of BF> our own economy.
The sad fact is that Sweden and Denmark have never been loyal EU members either...
Perhaps they should leave too and form a new alliance with the UK...
BF> As per the Schengen agreement, are you sure? After Sweden joined it BF> (long before we joined EU) we never had any passport problems when BF> entering England.
MvdV>> And more. They alway wanted an exemption. For this, for that, for MvdV>> almost everything.
BF> Yes, and...? Would you rather have politicians that take everything BF> that Brussels brings on you silently?
"Brussels" is not an autonomous decider. Decisions are made by the EU parliament and the EU cousel. IOW by the chosen representatives of the member states. What I want is politicians that are honest and tell their voters that what "Brussels" decides is what the member states have decided. Instead of blaming "Brussels" for every one of their own decisions that misfires.
I really don't see the problem with transfering souvreignty to the next level. Not so long ago, close enough for me to remember, we had municipal police. When the criminals became more mobile because of motorised transport and highways, and they could cross municipal bounderies just like that, we needed police that had the means and the authority to chase the criminals across municipal borders. And so that is what we got: national police.
And now that we have open national borders and criminials can cross national borders just like that, we need police that have the means and the authority to chase the criminals across those national borders.
And now that we have banks that operate across national borders and money freely flows across those borders, we need an authority with the means and the mandate to monitor that flow across borders and intervene when something goes wrong.
Why is the need for that transfer of souvreignty to the next higher level zo hard to understand and why so hard to accept?
