= Сообщение: 9022 из 12491 ====================================== ENET.SYSOP = От : Michiel van der Vlist 2:280/5555 21 Oct 19 23:48:47 Кому : Vince Coen 21 Oct 19 23:48:47 Тема : Brexit FGHI : area://ENET.SYSOP?msgid=2:280/5555+5dae2fdb На : area://ENET.SYSOP?msgid=2:250/1@fidonet+5dab2119 = Кодировка сообщения определена как: CP850 ================================== ============================================================================== Hello Vince,
On Saturday October 19 2019 15:31, you wrote to me:
VC> Hello Michiel!
VC> Saturday October 19 2019 10:59, you wrote to David Rance:
>> Hello David,
>> On Thursday October 17 2019 18:30, you wrote to me:
MvdV>>>> That BJ asked for it is an assumption.
DR>>> It is reported as fact.
>> Is it? I haven't seen it reported here.
MvdV>>>> The Brits are not the only ones that do not like that, but MvdV>>>> let's face it, the day that Brittania rules the waves are MvdV>>>> over.
DR>>> Whenever we assert ourselves you sneer at us by quoting DR>>> "Britannia". It's so easy to make a cheap jibe at us by quoting DR>>> an out of date song.
>> Oh, c'mon David, don't be so short fused. Referring to "Brittania" >> may not have been diplomatic on my side and if it offends you I >> aplologise and will try to avoid it in future.
>> But the fact remains that the UK has a history of colonialism and >> there are still trace of it around. Gibraltar and Northern Ireland >> are relics of that past. It is unavaoidable that it comes up now >> and then.
>> BTW your country is not the only one that is confronted with the >> consequences of a colonial past. My country is faced with its not >> so glorious past too. It also comes byting us in the tail now and >> then...
VC> The fact that 'the british' has a colonial past should be considered VC> in light of :
VC> 1. Many european countries did the same including Spain, France, VC> Holland, Denmark, Germany to name but a few.
VC> 2. Thank to the British history of doing so amongst other reasons we VC> maintained at the tax payer expense a large millitary force including VC> the Royal Navy and Royal Air Force.
VC> Both of these armed wings help fight wars before and during 1914 to VC> 1918, 1939 to 1945 not to mention later, thereby removing the occuping VC> forces of Germany and it's allies from most of Europe to allow those VC> countries of which yours is apart of having the freedom to live the VC> way you wish to without conflict. It should not be needed to say that VC> the large number of service personal that lost their lives doing so VC> from the UK and it's colonies as well as other countries throught the VC> world including later the U.S.A that far exceeded 10 millions.
VC> What a very short memory you have!!
I don't know about you, you could be a LOT older than me, but I have no first hand memory of WWII, let alone WWI. I was born 1n 1946, all I have is hearsay. What I was told is that indeed some 10^7 lives were lost by the Western Allies. I also was told that some 20 million lives were lost by the Eastern Allies. Mostly Russian. And that it was the Russians that beat the Germans in Stalingrad in 1942 and that that was a decisive moment. I was also told that the Russians freed Berlin and chased Hitler out of his bunker.
My grandfather, Jan van der Vlist, had a prestigious hotel in Oosterbeek. A village some 5 km west of Arnhem. If Montgommery hadn't fucked up operation Market Garden, I could now have been the proud pensioned owner of that hotel and my son would probably run it. But that wasn't to be. Market Garden was a failure. The hotel was first confiscated by the Germans for Staff housing. During market Garden it was used as an emergency hospital by the Alies and then when they witdrew, it was again confiscated by the Germans. It was hit by a bomb and that was the end of my grandfather's hotel.
Google for "Hotel Schoonoord Oosterbeek"
All this has nothing to do with the point I was trying to make. Which was that the problem of the NI border that is now an obstacle in the Brexit process is a relic of the UK colonial era.
From the POV of the Irish, Northern Ireland is territory occupied by the British and the British living there are settlers in occuped territory.
