On Tuesday December 31 2019 12:58, you wrote to me:
DR> It's the same for me when ordering from Europe. I use a sterling DR> credit card with an extremely good rate of exchange and no charges for DR> the conversion to euros and with a low limit just in case of problems.
Ah, there we go. I don't have a credit card. Not any more. I cancelled mine years ago. I hadn't used it for years, so why pay th yearly fee for something I do not need. I has been so long ago that I used a credit card that I had forgotten about the concept.
I have a so called "PIN card". I can pay almost everywhere with it and the amount is directly deducted from my bank account. Since the EU got involved, it works in the entire Euro zone, without any extra cost. No need fo a credit card...
DR> I've never had problems when using a card - except for once when I DR> used it at a hotel in Waterloo. I'm fairly sure that someone at the DR> hotel desk skimmed it because later that day it was blocked by the DR> issuer.
That risk is substantially lower with the "PIN card" system. That card never leaves my posession. When it is stolen it is pretty useless without the PIN code.
DR> Tell me, why don't the Dutch banks allow the use of credit cards?
They do. It is not the banks, they issue cards and don;t mind people using them. But they charge for it.
DR> Or is that just for foreign credit cards? I can use my credit card in DR> any European country that I've visited without let or hindrance, but I DR> can't in the Netherlands. At least, not in retail establishments, only DR> to withdraw euros from a bank cash machine.
Credit cards are not popular here since we can use the "PIN Card" everywhere. Retailers are reluctant to accept them because of the risk and the cost. Like the customers they prefer the PIN Card. With the PIN card the retailer is sure to get his money. At no extra cost. Credit cards... I consider it a thing of the past decade...
DR> It was embarrassing when Ann and I had a meal in a restaurant in DR> Middelburg and they wouldn't accept my card!
Next time ask in advance...
MvdV>> try and we finally got it. It took a month and I paid EUR 50 MvdV>> for a 20 Pound doll. This was before Brexit.... The systems MvdV>> just do not interface between the UK and the EU...
MvdV>> No way I will ever again buy something on-line in the UK...
DR> It does sound from what you've written (and this is why I haven't DR> edited it) that the delay was more to do with what happened once the DR> goods had left England. I've had no such problems in the other DR> direction. It wasn't the fault of the sender that Post NL didn't carry DR> out their proper instructions.
O am not blaming the sender. But such problems wit htracking codes do not occur when ordering something from conitental EU. I say: "Royal Mails's system does not interface well with the continental systems"...
DR>>> But then it would have been bad for the UK economy.
MvdV>> Would it? Really?
MvdV>> By that same reasoning Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland MvdV>> should never have joined the Pound Sterling and have kept their MvdV>> own currency instead.
DR> That's not a very sensible statement, is it? I thought we were being DR> serious.
I am very serious. It is the same reasoning taken to another level. Why would having a common monetary system be bad for the economy when applied on the Euopean level, but good for the economy when applied one level lower on the National level? Why did the US introduce the Dollar for all the States? Did it not hurt the economy of Texas when they had to part with the Texas Dollar?
DR>>> Schengen? - well we didn't hear about that until years after it DR>>> happened. I think the first I'd heard of it was from Ward here - DR>>> if you can believe that!
MvdV>> I know, I watched it happen. But then how come the UK people MvdV>> never heard about schengen? Did the government hide it from MvdV>> them?
DR> Our government hid a lot of the benefits from us.
How come they get away with it? Here the try as well, but they seldeo get away with it. It is the job of the free press to uncover things that the government tries to keep fo themselves. And ever so often something surfaces that is embarrrasing for the goverment. Such as the fact that several years ago 70+ civilians were killed in an attack on a bomb factory run by ISIS. And that it was a Dutch F16 that dropped the bomb.
The uprage was not about the civilians killed. Most people accept that in war shit happens. But the uorage was about the government hiding the incident from the people.
DR> And the other one that I quote about the government keeping quiet is DR> where we *receive* benefits from the EU, notably the farmers, thus DR> making it seem that the EU takes all and gives nowt.
But you do have a free press don't you?
DR>>> Imperial measures? Well we're half and half. I have a set of DR>>> weights for both systems in my kitchen. But we do have to sells DR>>> goods in metric (we passed that law years ago).
MvdV>> Hmmm... Earlier today I saw a sign with "speed limit 60 mph" in MvdV>> a news flash. OK, that was Northern Ireland. But that it still MvdV>> the UK isn't it?
DR> I wrote "But we do have to *sell* goods in metric". Where do we sell DR> 60mph???
You narrowed it down to selling. I did not make that restriction when I claimed youi were still using imperial measures.
DR> We sell fuel in litres. We sell groceries, drinks, etc., when sold by DR> weight, in kilos. And any retailer selling in imperial only is DR> prosecuted. What more do you want? Oh yes, kph!
It is not what I want. I just notice that you still use imperial measures. Even the Irish use kph...
DR>>> No, we (and I mean the Brits generally) will go from half out to DR>>> half in, based on the idea that we're getting what (we think) we DR>>> want!
MvdV>> I am afraid that those who think that way are in for a MvdV>> dissapointment. But it was their choice...
DR> And what facts do you have to back that up? Sorry, but when you talk DR> us down, your facts are often either wrong or non-existent! [See DR> above]
I am not talking you down. Or at least I had no intention of doing so. So if it is perceived that way. I am merely espressing my expectation that those who think they will be better of after Brexit are in for a disappointment.
DR> Of course, *some* people are going to be disappointed (such as myself)
I am not talking about you. From what I gathered from out interactions, you are not one of those that expect the UK to be better of after Brexit. Your disppointment will not be the same as those who believe it will get better for them when it won't..
The consencus among economist here is that Brexit will be bad for the econimy of both the UK and the EU. But it will hurt the UK more than the EU. Also it will hurt some EU counties more that others. The Netherlands exports a lot to the UK. So we will feel it in our wallet. At least until we find other markets for our products.
DR> and so a generalised statement like yours is always going to be partly DR> true, thus you will always be able to say, "I told you so!" ;-)
My statement was not a general statement. It was limited to "those who think they go from half out to half in after Brexit".
