= Сообщение: 9276 из 12491 ====================================== ENET.SYSOP = От : Michiel van der Vlist 2:280/5555 07 Jan 20 13:54:09 Кому : David Rance 07 Jan 20 13:54:09 Тема : Brexit FGHI : area://ENET.SYSOP?msgid=2:280/5555+5e1483cb На : area://ENET.SYSOP?msgid=2:203/2+5e107896 = Кодировка сообщения определена как: CP850 ================================== Ответ: area://ENET.SYSOP?msgid=2:203/2+5e14c86a ============================================================================== Hello David,
On Saturday January 04 2020 12:35, you wrote to me:
DR> Everywhere, except the Netherlands it appears, people use credit cards DR> most of the time.
I know that here in the Netherlands the Dutch people do not use credit cards for day to day use. I never see people pay with a credit card in the supermarket. I don't even know if they accept them. There are no logos on the door indicating credit cards are accepetd. "PIN Crads" OTOH are accepted everywhere. Most supermarkets only accept cash at a limited number of ques tese days...
DR> In the UK we do not pay any yearly fees and now we don't even have a DR> surcharge when using it with a retailer. My credit card has a cashback DR> (a small percentage of the total cost of each transaction is refunded DR> and paid back to me yearly) so, for me, using a credit card is the DR> cheapest way of making purchases, cheaper even than using cash. I pay DR> my credit card bill in full monthly so I don't have to pay any DR> interest.
That begs the question "what is the credit comapny's bussines model?" If it is free for you, you are the product...
DR> And my credit card is with a building society that, when I make DR> purchases abroad, the exchange rate is the same as the interbank rate DR> at the time the purchase is made (which means that purchases made DR> within a few minutes of each other can have a slightly different DR> exchange rate) and this is always a much better rate than transferring DR> money to my French bank account.
Of course within the Eurozone there is no exchange rate.
DR> However I also have a debit card which sounds more like what you're DR> talking about where transactions are charged directly to my bank DR> account. I very rarely use this to make purchases.
That is the one I almost always use as most people here do.
DR> In fact the only time that I've used it in this way was to buy a car, DR> a very large amount.
For those occasions I just transfer the money from my account to that of the seller. No card...
DR> But you mentioned a card that you can "charge" with money. They used DR> to have these in France (called "Monnaie" I seem to remember) and DR> various banks have tried to bring them in here in the UK, but they've DR> never been popular and I don't know if they still exist.
Here they are history too. Replaced by the"PIN card" which is now also used for small amounts. I just mentioned them for completenes.
MvdV>> That risk is substantially lower with the "PIN card" system. MvdV>> That card never leaves my posession. When it is stolen it is MvdV>> pretty useless without the PIN code.
DR> We had this discussion a year or two back when you insisted at the DR> time that the PIN is not registered on the card but that the card DR> machine contacted the bank for it. Well, that may be true for your PIN DR> card but it's certainly not true for credit and debit cards. They all DR> have PINs and they are recorded on the card's chip.
Having the code stored on the card is unsafe. I an sure it is not so with our "PIN card". There is no way to retreive the code from the card. Even the banks themselves can not recover the code.
DR> That's how cards can get "skimmed" by anyone with a suitable machine.
Impossible with the PIN card. Of course the code can be obtained by other means. Mostly by social engineering...
DR> This is why, when we use our credit/debit card the retailer is not now DR> allowed to take it out of our sight. In fact they shouldn't touch them DR> at all, and should put their portable machine into our hands for us to DR> enter the card and the PIN.
Another way to get the PIN code is to use a "doctored" ATM.
MvdV>> Credit cards are not popular here since we can use the "PIN MvdV>> Card" everywhere. Retailers are reluctant to accept them MvdV>> because of the risk and the cost. Like the customers they MvdV>> prefer the PIN Card. With the PIN card the retailer is sure to MvdV>> get his money.
DR> And so he would with a debit card. If the transaction goes through DR> then the retailer gets his money.
Indeed.
MvdV>> Credit cards... I consider it a thing of the past decade...
DR> Ah well, the rest of the world has yet to catch up! ;-)
They will. Have patience.. ;-)
MvdV>> How come they get away with it? Here the try as well, but they MvdV>> seldem get away with it.
