= Сообщение: 440 из 1367 ============================================= UTF-8 = От : Michiel van der Vlist 2:280/5555 03 Mar 17 14:50:25 Кому : Konstantin Kuzov 03 Mar 17 14:50:25 Тема : UTF-8 nodelist FGHI : area://UTF-8?msgid=2:280/5555+58b97ad4 На : area://UTF-8?msgid=2:5019/40.1+58b9160a = Кодировка сообщения определена как: UTF-8 ================================== Ответ: area://UTF-8?msgid=2:5019/40.1+58bc52aa ============================================================================== Hello Konstantin,
On Friday March 03 2017 10:06, you wrote to me:
KK> Through I'm not a big fan of the idea of UTF-8 nodelist project in KK> it's current state because: 1) It is completely separated version of KK> nodelist. So it is prone to out of sync issues with ascii-only KK> version.
Yes, there is that risk. For my own net, I have minimised the risk by only editing the UTF-8 version and derive the ASCII version from the UTF-8 version with a SED script. So they are always in sync.
When we would redesign Fidonet from the start, there are a lot of things we would do different. One of them would be the nodelist. As it is, we are stuck with decisions made in the past. Changing the nodelist format will involve the cooperation of everyone in Fidonet and that is just not going to happen. There are too many that use software thet depends on the nodelist as it is. So the ASCII only nodelist as it is, is not going away for the forseeable future, so everything alse - whatever it is - will have to be a parallel distribution. No way around it.
KK> 2) IMHO it must also contain latin-only representations. KK> Ability to see native representation of information is very good, but KK> to properly understand it you must know that language.
But that goes both ways. Someone from Russia, or any other country with a native language that uses the Cyrillic alfabet, who does not know English or any other language that uses the Latin alfabet, can not properly understand the information in the ASCII only nodelist either.
English may still be the official language of Fidonet, it is no longer the dominant language of Fidonet. It has not been the dominant language for many years. Well over a decade I'd say. Same for the alfabet. Latin is no longer the dominant alfabet in Fido, most messages are written in Cyrillic these days. Don't be shy. Your alfabet deserves to be seen. If not in the official ASCII only nodelist, then at least in the UTF-8 version.
KK> If you doesn't know it then you just couldn't read it and most likely KK> couldn't type it.
That need not be true. I do not master the Russian language, but I have familiarised myself with the Cyrillic alfabet. I can read names in Cyrillic. .. sort of..
I can even type it, I have installed the proper keyboard driver, I may be the exception. But in orer to read non Latin characters, one does need to be able to type them.
KK> So it renders it basically useless.
I disagree that it is useless.
I have Golded compile both the ASCII nodelist and a non ASCII nodelist derived from the UTF nodelist. That way the nodelist lookup in Golded shows me both the ASCII and the non ASCII version of the sysop names. You could do the same for Cyrillic names.
KK> I understand the desire to keep compatibility with old format but KK> maybe we need to also introduce xml/json version which would contain KK> both ascii and utf-8 representations if they are different.
At present I think that is a bridge too far. Plus that we would still have the sync problem, the old ASCII only nodelist is not going away. Not for a long time.
KK> But despite that why not to join...
Indeed, that is what is avaiialble now, so why not use it? So welcome to the club!
KK> Just asked R50C about current state of NC's counter and expressed my KK> desire to join.
Any response?
Do you know any other NCs in R50 that maybe would like to join?
